Debate Between Wisdom and Ignorance Note 6:
The Self-grasping Presents How Its Apprehended Object Exists Nominally

The Self-grapsing says to the wisdom:

I arrived simultaneously with the mind [19]
In a mere nominal way.
If you do not assert a really existing ‘I’,
And deny nominal existence

Have you not fallen into the extreme of nihilism? [20]
Cause and effect, dependent arising, action and activity
Are thoroughly pervaded by me.
Therefore, you go wherever you have to go to!

As I do not exist ultimately I came simultaneously with the mind relatively. If we look at the way we exist, you, the wisdom, do not exist ultimately, and did not come together with the mind ultimately, and likewise also me, the ignorance, do not exist ultimately and did not come together with the mind ultimately. I came together with the mind in a relative or nominal manner.

If one views nominally existing phenomena it is denial. If one denies nominal phenomena one falls into the extreme of nihilism. Therefore, have you not fallen into the extreme of nihilism? The phenomena of cause and effect, dependent arising and action and activity are conventional phenomena and their appearance is pervaded by me.

Self-Grasping says that since cause and effect, dependent arising and action and activity always appear truly, their appearance is always pervaded by it. Since it pervades all their appearances it will stay and the wisdom, should go wherever it has to go to!’

You are unsuitable to remain here [21]
Amongst our nominal actions and activities.
You, the one without ultimate true existence,
Since you contradict me, begone!

The self-grasping says:

‘Without true existence the actions and activities of cause and effect are not possible. We, the self-grasping and the mind etc., nominally perform actions and activities, which would not be possible without true existence. Without true existence nominal actions would not be possible, yet nominal actions and activities exist and I, the true-grasping, perform nominally actions and activities. Hence, you the wisdom, are unsuitable to remain amongst us. You without ultimate truth, you contradict me. Be gone!’